Something that has always perplexed me.
Abortion v IVF
Now, before I start here, I will say that I am VERY pro-choice, and fine with IVF as well. I don't consider either of them "killing babies" or "wrong". I consider both of them a personal choice, and I consider both of them, in regards to the discarded embryos, the killing of a cell, NOT a baby.
What I don't understand, is how people cannot see them as the same thing, or (this will be unpopular), IVF is possibly worse. I have friends who are VERY pro-life. Think people who have abortions are murderers, and that it is a horrible sin to have an abortion. Those SAME people think IVF is fabulous, because it is a method to help those unable to conceive naturally to have children. OK, fine, I agree that IVF is great for some people. But how is it not the same as abortion, in a way?
In both abortion and IVF, embryos are discarded. Now, in abortion, the embryo(s) are being discarded without the hope for further life. In IVF, they are being discarded with the HOPE of life, but discarded just the same. I just find it really, really confusing how someone who detests abortion can think IVF is OK.
To take this further, perhaps to those who are anti-abortion, logically, they should be even more anti-IVF? Follow me here. Abortions usually occcur because an "accidental, unwanted" pregnancy occurs. Unplanned. When embryos are discarded with IVF, it is planned. Further, doctors are judging the embryos, selecting the best ones to live and the weakest to die. In wording this out, IVF sounds FAR worse than abortion.
Now, I know there are people out there who are against IVF and abortion. That makes sense to me. But to support one and not the other makes zero sense to me because of the logic and science behind both ideas. Which could also lead to a discussion on stem cell research, but we will leave that for another day.......
Thoughts? Any of you for one and not the other, and have an explantion that I can understand?
**Disclaimer. I am not starting these topics to start arguments. For anyone who has used IVF and been blessed with a baby or more, I am thrilled for you. And for anyone that got rid of an unwanted pregnancy, good for you too, as you should not be forced to bear a child that is not wanted. I am just trying to figure out the logic behind supporting one and not the other.
Abortion v IVF
Now, before I start here, I will say that I am VERY pro-choice, and fine with IVF as well. I don't consider either of them "killing babies" or "wrong". I consider both of them a personal choice, and I consider both of them, in regards to the discarded embryos, the killing of a cell, NOT a baby.
What I don't understand, is how people cannot see them as the same thing, or (this will be unpopular), IVF is possibly worse. I have friends who are VERY pro-life. Think people who have abortions are murderers, and that it is a horrible sin to have an abortion. Those SAME people think IVF is fabulous, because it is a method to help those unable to conceive naturally to have children. OK, fine, I agree that IVF is great for some people. But how is it not the same as abortion, in a way?
In both abortion and IVF, embryos are discarded. Now, in abortion, the embryo(s) are being discarded without the hope for further life. In IVF, they are being discarded with the HOPE of life, but discarded just the same. I just find it really, really confusing how someone who detests abortion can think IVF is OK.
To take this further, perhaps to those who are anti-abortion, logically, they should be even more anti-IVF? Follow me here. Abortions usually occcur because an "accidental, unwanted" pregnancy occurs. Unplanned. When embryos are discarded with IVF, it is planned. Further, doctors are judging the embryos, selecting the best ones to live and the weakest to die. In wording this out, IVF sounds FAR worse than abortion.
Now, I know there are people out there who are against IVF and abortion. That makes sense to me. But to support one and not the other makes zero sense to me because of the logic and science behind both ideas. Which could also lead to a discussion on stem cell research, but we will leave that for another day.......
Thoughts? Any of you for one and not the other, and have an explantion that I can understand?
**Disclaimer. I am not starting these topics to start arguments. For anyone who has used IVF and been blessed with a baby or more, I am thrilled for you. And for anyone that got rid of an unwanted pregnancy, good for you too, as you should not be forced to bear a child that is not wanted. I am just trying to figure out the logic behind supporting one and not the other.
12 comments:
Wow..you have made me consider something I never thought about before!
I am Pro-Life [obviously :)] so yes I think abortion is wrong. But I never had an opinion of IVF..I guess I never really knew the details of it. But your argument is right on! As someone who is Pro-Life I consider life to begin at the moment of conception - when the sperm and egg join. Since multiple eggs are being fertilized during IVF, then I need to conclude that life is present [based on my beliefs] and therefore disagree with this procedure.
So, basically, while we are on the opposite sides of the spectrum regarding abortion, we share the same beliefs that one should be both Pro-Life and Anti IVF and vice versa.
I may need to do some more research and thinking about this but at first glance, you make a great point!
Being raised Catholic, this is a tough one too because we were taught to believe one-way only!
I guess what I don't get is that if life begins at conception, why aren't there funerals for miscarriages? Although, I guess that's not true because I did go to one two summer's ago and I have to say, it was weird. And it really wasn't a funeral per se, but a memorial for the unborn child. Which again, was kinda weird. Weird in that no one knew how to act. No one knew what to say. There were no "memories" to speak of about the deceased.
Very interesting topic. I'll have to send you the story of my friend who has a severely handicapped child and how she and her husband went against every doctor's advice regarding this child. It's definitely a story that will make you think... not only from a personal viewpoint but also a political one as they receive over $100k annual from the state of CA for the care of their child and that doesn't include the three state-paid nurses that come in several times each week to care for him.
I'm with Andrea on this one...this really gave me something to think about! I am pro-life; however, I have also said that should I not be able to conceive naturally due to my female issues, I would possibly consider IVF. BUT. I never thought about it in the way that you presented it here.
Hmmm.
I'll get back to you on this one.
Referring back to the Catholic comment, I work with a woman who is Catholic who was having trouble conceiving a child. The Catholic church frowns on IVF for the reasons Lori has pointed out (it's not talked about much) and this woman struggled with that because of her faith. She's in China right now, adopting a child.
Personally, I think people can justify anything in their minds -- and would never think of IVF as a means of killing an embryo, which of course it is. Being 'pro life' is a misnomer unless a person is PRO LIFE for an entire life, in my opinion -- and that includes every possible scenario. I could go on and on in your comments!
Well, I'm pro-choice and no opinion on IVF. Anti-IVF for myself personally. Read: I'm not pro-*abortion*, but I don't think someone ELSE should be telling me what to do with my body - or any other woman's body. And I don't have any right to tell any other woman what to do with their body, either - which is why I can't say I'm "anti-IVF" generally. I ABSOLUTELY agree that people being pro-life and still OK with IVF appear hypocritical. I've always thought that.
No dissent here - just wanted to nod my head. ;)
Wow. I never thought of IVF that way before. I think you make a very good point.
I'm pro-choice and pro-IVF. I'm also pro-stem cell research.
Another thing I don't get is how a person can be pro-life, anti-IVF, yet for the death penalty.
I can't wrap my mind around only unborn children having sanctity of life.
I am pro-choice and so-so on IVF. While I think there are some great technologies to help infertile couples, I worry that irresponsible choices are sometimes being made by both the couples and their doctors.
In general, I think everyone has to sort it out for themselves so as long as no one is making *me* have an abortion or IVF, I keep fairly quiet about my views.
And since we're saying unpopular things, I've always felt there was a weird tension between being pro life and pro IVF when the pro life justification is "God doesn't make mistakes" or "You are playing God" when choosing to have an abortion. Maybe a couple who doesn't conceive naturally isn't destined by God to conceive.
That last comment scares the crap out of me. If I'm not destined to have a child because I can't conceive, then does that mean that I'd be 'tempting fate' to even adopt a child? (It'd be my child..) would something horrible happen to us? Anyway..
I'm pro-choice, pro-IVF. But as a woman who can't conceive, it honestly does break my heart when I hear that someone has had an abortion, instead of letting one of 'us' adopt..
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