Thursday, April 09, 2009

Question of the Day

Why aren't there dinosaurs in the Bible?


colfin2002 said...

Ahhh... this brings back fond (*not*) memories of a 4-hour conversation I had with *The Pastor* about this very topic. According to *him* there are no dinosaurs in the bible because dinosaurs NEVER existed. God created the world and Adam and Eve and that's when the world started.

So when I asked him about all of the scientific evidence that proves that dinosaurs exist, he said it was all bogus and lies.

Then I asked him about the bones that are found, etc and he didn't have an answer so I said, "Oh... God must have created them in bone-form so paleontologists would have something to do?" He didn't take my comment well.

And he never did give me a good answer on that.

Lori H said...

R U serious? He seriously said dinosaurs NEVER EXISTED? Wow. That's a religion I want to follow. One that discredits scientific proof. Wow.

That is such a hilarious conversation! Love this post of yours. :).

Silka said...

You want the real answer? Oh man how I'd love to get into this but I HATE getting into topics regarding religion. Many people don't like what I have to say about

Rebecca said...

Interesting question.

I'm with Silka, keeping my mouth shut. But need I bring up our trip to the zoo a few years back when we were looking at the apes and I said "to think, we evolved from them" and that woman scoffed and said "tsk, I don't THINK so!".

Ironically enough, Jordan (Dr. Johns 6 year old daughter) asked her mom if Jesus was making an appearance for Easter. And Alec was looking at a cross and saying "Jesus? Does it hurt having nails in you?".

Ah religion....a topic touchier than politics.

Rebecca said...

And holy crap Colleen...a 4 hour conversation?!? I mean, I could talk about how cool dinosaurs are for maybe 2 hours, but 4 hours arguing their existence, even with overwhelming evidence? Honey, you are so better off with him out of your life!

colfin2002 said...

Religion is a tough topic. I was raised C-A-T-H-O-L-I-C! My parents still go to church EVERY DAY!

I do like some teachings in the bible and they have helped me through things. It's when things are taken out of context (like Eric Rudolph and his website). He quotes scripture up one side and down the other and I think it's a *little* out of context! Yes... the man is a loony!

As for the dinosaurs... that's tough too because we are taught to believe things. But that doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It is what it is. Neither thought is right or wrong. I heard a great quote the other today, "What we believe is due to our experiences." That's so true! Just because we didn't experience something a different way doesn't make either way right or wrong. (Does that make sense? I can't seem to get my words right this morning!!!)

And according to my 7-year-old nephew there were pirates in biblical times! Who knew?

Yes Rebecca... 4 hours. On the drive home from Mackinac. Couldn't get out of the car so I just tuned him out. ;)

PS: Don't look at the armyofgod website if you have a weak stomach. Just a warning because it's brutal. And NO... I do NOT agree with the website.

Lori H said...

OK, SOOOOO not fair, Silka. You should all know that I am totally open to like all opinions! and welcome reading about them! Post everyone, don't avoid! That's the fun of the blogging, right? Love everyone's thoughts on this.

Mindy said...

There are. They are commonly referred to as Leviathan in the Bible.

But the main reason there is no big discussion about it - what do dinosaurs, who were extinct before people were around - have to do with God and his relationship with Man? Nothing. The Bible is all about God and his relationship with Man.

Job 3:8 NIV
May those who curse days curse that day, those who are ready to rouse Leviathan.

Job 41:1 NIV
"Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope?

Psalms 74:14 NIV
It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan and gave him as food to the creatures of the desert.

Psalms 104:26 NIV
There the ships go to and fro, and the leviathan, which you formed to frolic there.

Isaiah 27:1 NIV
[Deliverance of Israel] In that day, the LORD will punish with his sword, his fierce, great and powerful sword, Leviathan the gliding serpent, Leviathan the coiling serpent; he will slay the monster of the sea.

miika said...

I'd say the main reason would be the fact that they were extinct before the bible was written, and people 2000 years ago didn't yet have the science to figure out that those bones and footprints belonged to animals that lived long before human memory...

miika said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rachael said...

They are conflicting ideologies. One belief can't possibly be logical if you believe in the other. lol.

The bible says the earth is not old enough for the dinosaurs to exist, yet they find dinosaur fossils which unequivocally support the scientific-dinosaur-evolution theory... we have proof of evolution right in our own bodies. We don't have a use for the appendix or the tailbone any longer. Where is the proof of Noah's Ark, biblical lore and other biblical phenomena? :)

I would compare Leviathan to a mystical sea creature similar to Greek Mythology (folklore) rather than a dinosaur. In that case, I guess you could also call the talking snake in the Garden of Eden a dinosaur... and the giant fish that swallowed Jonah... just sayin :)

Anyway here is a funny picture perfect for this conversation.

Funny you should bring this up- we just watched the Bill Maher documentary "Religulous" the other night.

Lori H said...

What's a levithian?

OK, I just looked it up. This says sea creature, demon or monster:

So, I guess I am not buying dinosaur.......But, I guess that's why the Bible is the Bible. It's so open to interpretation that anyone can interpret things however they want? Who knows.

Seriously though, God tells Eve not to eat the poisonous fruit. It would have been more appropriate to say "what out for that freaking t-rex!" Right? LOL.

Kurt and I were just having this conversation while at the museum looking at dinosaurs bones and laughing at how certain people think dinosaurs never existed. Which led to, "Why aren't dinosaurs in the Bible?"

I just wonder why Christian religions require one to believe the Bible is 100% truth. I believe in God, I 100% believe in Evolution, but I think the Bible is mostly a book of ficion. I think small parts are true, but the rest is just embellishment of those small parts that ARE true. Kinda like movies that are based on a true story.

I think the Bible is great for those who are looking for guidance and can find help in the Bible though, so I see it as a great aid to those in need of that.

Lori H said...

When was the Bible supposedly written? I just thought it said that Adam and Eve were the first living things here, so I am confused as to how dinosaurs were here BEFORE them? Help!

Mindy said...

The earliest portions of the Bible were reportedly "discovered" by Moses.

I believe in the Bible. I don't believe it's mostly fiction, at all. And neither do historians and theologians. HUGE portions of the Bible match up with historical records of the Greeks, Egyptians and Romans. In fact, the vast majority.

Dinosaurs existed. Scientists have proven this. Fundamentalists (and FLDS Mormons and others) can dispute this - but the evidence is there. I think this is a great article talking about it. Although I don't agree with everything in it (I don't agree - for example - in the young earth theory - and don't actually believe the Bible supports it.)

.................Nancy said...

I have often had this discussion with people, only to arrive to a point where they are totally satisfied with their explanation but I'm not. I'm starting to believe that some people actually feel something when they believe in the bible and organized religion that I'm lacking..

Lori H said...

I don't think it's that we are "lacking" at all, Nancy. Everyone has their own beliefs and feelings. I don't think anyone's are necessarily wrong or right, but I refuse to think it's because we lack something others have. :).

Mindy said...

With the greatest amount of respect ever, Nancy and Lori, you are lacking something. You are lacking knowledge on the topic from the sources that you ask why it's not included.

And please understand, that is not a put down. It's a very simple statement.

I find it curious that people are super comfortable saying "oh, I don't really know anything about that subject" with so many things in life - vaccinations, Egyptian mythology, Pagan rituals, Welsh history, Michigan law, (no implication you don't know, Lori - it's that I don't know. I didn't even know Michigan wasn't a community property state - my ignorance on the subject there) Switzerland's government, quilting, playing piano, cooking, Adolph Hitler's role in WWI, etc., etc., etc., but when it comes to things related to the Bible - they don't. I can give you tons of stuff that I lack knowledge on. And for a long time, knowledge concerning the Bible and the information contained therein was included in that list. My knowledge of the Bible hasn't come second hand or by being spoon-fed by other people. That would never satisfy me. I'm the type to walk outside after I hear the weatherman say it's sunny and warm. Need to see for myself, thanks. My knowledge (and I go to Bible Study every single Thursday and study the Bible daily now - my knowledge of the Bible is still - after 13 years of pretty consistent study - incomplete - it always will be. Mother Theresa said her's was - and no - I'm no Mother Theresa - I'm saying that if a woman who devoted her entire being and her entire life to learning about God's knowledge was incomplete - I'm NEVER going to get there) come with years and hours of study of the Bible ALONG WITH other respected and accepted historical books concerning Greek, Roman, Egyptian and Pagan history. At 17, I walked away from the Blind Faith I had and was raised in . . . and went on a 3 year journey - my intent was to prove the Bible false. I was surprised that after 3 years, for me personally, I wasn't able to do so. Also - and super important - that knowledge is largely interpretive.

Rabbinical and Bible scholars, and theologians (who believe in the historical truths in the Bible but are atheists) are STILL arguing over interpretation. They've been doing it for over 2000 years, and I would feel safe wagering a bet that they won't be stopping anytime soon.

The Bible references a "water-creature" with a "tail like a cedar tree" (Leviathan). Some Bible (and Rabbinical - because it's old testament) scholars have said that they are talking about an elephant or a hippo. Others have said "pshaw - first of all - this was translated from Greek and the Greeks had words for hippos and elephants - and that's not it - and by the way - elephants and hippos - they don't have tails like cedar trees. BUT - Brachiosaurus - a marine dinosaur - did."

Also - on the "new earth" thing - there are Christians that believe that the earth really was formed in six 24 hour days before the creation of Adam and Eve. Then there are other Christians who reference passages in the Bible that remark that to God, one day is 1000 years. My dad thinks carbon dating is hocus pocus. I don't. I believe in Pangea, I believe in tectonic shifting, I believe in dinosaurs.

And honestly - I would love to debate this with someone like "The Pastor." Didn't know him - but this is a subject I've studied in great depth and with great intensity. I could hold my own in a debate on said topic! I did a very intense 24 week class on the very subject and turned over numerous resources during such time.

Lori H said...

I have read the entire Bible. Cover to cover. Granted, it was a long time ago, but I am not completely without knowledge on the subject. I was raised Catholic, attended Baptist camps in the summer, and have been to a variety of churches. I have yet to find one that teaches what I believe in, so I would prefer to believe what I want, on my own.

Do I know as much as you do or many others? No. But it's because I have no desire to put any more energy/studies into a book that I believe is mostly fiction. If others want to study it because it is important to them, that's great, and their preogative. I study photography, others study the Bible.....I think it's great that people have things they are passionate about, whether I agree with it or not.

And you are right, all of it can totally be interpreted in a lot of different ways, which is why I think the whole thing annoys me. People who are ultra religious can take ANYTHING in the Bible and interpret it however they want. I have friends who will interpret one part of the Bible literally, then take other parts and interpret them totally NOT literally. Pick a way, please, you know?

Anyway, I think it's great that you have put that much time into it, since you feel so strongly about it, Mindy. It sounds like you have learned a lot, and that's awesome since it interests you.

Rachael said...

"I believe in the Bible. I don't believe it's mostly fiction, at all. And neither do historians and theologians. HUGE portions of the Bible match up with historical records of the Greeks, Egyptians and Romans."

That is just it... the Greeks, Egyptians and Romans ideas and beliefs were based on MYTHology (folklore, fiction, exaggerations).

Stories from the bible show up in numerous cultures with different names. There was also a religion prior to Christianity called Zoroastrianism... they had just about every story the bible has- with different names and origins. How is it that something that is supposed to be the "Word of God" winds up completely altered, ripped off of previous mythologies - anyone see a connection between Hercules and Zeus to God and Jesus?

Also, none of the writers of the bible actually witnessed anything they wrote about... they were all stories passed down and repeated through hear-say. Have you ever played that game "telephone" when you are a kid... the sentence or story gets completely distorted with each person who passes it to the next.

Even Catholic bishops have stated that the bible is not completely accurate ("The Gift of Scripture" - London Times - Oct. 5, 2005) declaring that “We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” totally undermines the Bible’s authority. In it, the Bible was described as a combination of the “Word of God” mixed with “human dimensions.”

Lori H said...

Interesting, Rachael. I am going to have to read the article you reference. I have never heard of that religion you talk about, but it does not surprise me at all that the Bible has similarities to another book. And your stuff about telephone? You said it much better than I have been able to.

Anyway, I love how everyone has such different opinions on this. I think it is what makes the world so interesting, all the varying thoughts on topics.

Miss Thang said...

I'm in awe of your knowledge, Mindy. Truly :)

Mindy said...

If you think I'm relying on the Iliad as a historical document, you are wrong. I am not talking about Greek, Roman and Egyptian religious texts. I am talking about accepted historical documents. Documents evidencing wars, plagues, kings, places, etc. They all match up. All of them. I'm not talking stories of the Virgin Birth - I'm talking the Jews being forced out, wandering the desert, becoming slaves to the Egyptians, a man named Pontius Pilate existing, etc., etc.

Also - you said "Also, none of the writers of the bible actually witnessed anything they wrote about." What? What on earth are you talking about?

Ezekiel wrote Ezekiel. It was about events in his own life. Daniel wrote Daniel. Events in his own life. Matthew, Mark, John, Paul wrote Matthew, Mark, John, Paul, 1 & 2nd Corinthians, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, Ephesians, Colossions, etc., etc.

TONS of the Bible is a first person account - written based on the experiences had by the people themselves.

The Bible was written and assembled by humans. Perfection cannot be expected. But I trust it.

Lori H said...

I love the name Pontius Pilate. It rocks.

Mindy said...

Oh - and - I've done comparative religious studies. So yes, I do know that there are many belief systems that closely mirror Christianity. The "wise men" who were lead by the star to Christ? They were believed to be Zoroastrianists. The Roman Catholic church destroyed that particular faith - along with the Celtic druids. And the Navajo faith closely mirrors Christianity, as well. They have a virgin birth and a resurrected savior. My belief in Pangea - the entire earth being one land mass - and then splitting up - the tower of Babylon, and the division of lands and creation of several new languages, and the accepted historical facts in many different nations allow me to reconcile this very easily in my mind.